• h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017

    Welcome back,

    We missed you!  Now that that is out of the way, is the DMG Category the h:k ratio in percentage form?

    h4il

  • h4iltotheking
    Director
    Member since May 05, 2017


    "

    Welcome back,

    We missed you!  Now that that is out of the way, is the DMG Category the h:k ratio in percentage form?

    h4il

    h4iltotheking
    Yes, DMG is hit to kill ratio as a percentage.


  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017

    Damage category is essentially the number of kills by a specific weapon divided by the number of shots hit.  

    The average varies between both gun used and mode played.  The more the gun is used, the more likely the average is correctly weighted. 

  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017

    Kpm: Kill per minute, Dmg: Damage % per hit (projection), Khr: Kill / Hit ratio, Hskr: Headshot / Kill ratio :)

  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017

    That is what I thought, but being it's a new system I just didn't want to assume.  I figured it was an easy way to check for damage hacks.  24 damage weapon, three shots to kill, 33.33% h:k.

    Thank you for the clarification.

  • h4iltotheking
    Administrator
    Member since May 08, 2017

    Does the new system factor in hardcore damage?

  • h4iltotheking
    Director
    Member since May 05, 2017

    Yes it does. If someone plays a lot of hardcore, their damages will be in yellow. If you see damage in red then that means it is impossible even on hardcore without cheating. Each weapon we have in our system uses the real in-game stats as seen on Symthic.

  • h4iltotheking
    Administrator
    Member since May 08, 2017


    "

    Yes it does. If someone plays a lot of hardcore, their damages will be in yellow. If you see damage in red then that means it is impossible even on hardcore without cheating. Each weapon we have in our system uses the real in-game stats as seen on Symthic.

    skulls

    Great ! Thanks for the info.


  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017

    See, this is why I asked, for example, an AS VAL does 23 damage, and is being reported at 35 damage (80.75%) when it's not  80.75%, it's 103+% where as an M16 that does 24 damage (more) at 34.4 (less than the AS Val) is 107.26%

    So either I do not understand the basic concept of, bigger numbers do more damage, or something isn't set right for the AS VAL.

  • h4iltotheking
    Director
    Member since May 05, 2017

    I believe there is underlying buffer we use so that a little bit of extra damage say from hardcore or more than average HSKR won't set off auto bans for legitimate players.

  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017

    Ok, making headway, the next logical question.  What does it take to become a red flag to people when they see stats like 97% of the time, maximum damage is done on 100,000 kills with an LMG used at all ranges?

    This link shows exactly what I’m talking about with damage bleeding.

    http://symthic.com/bf4-weapon-info?w=MG4

    After the 47 mark damage goes from 33 h:k to 25 h:k and head shots go from one (100%) to two (50%).  I encourage anyone to do the math, you’ll say, “but 19.99 * 3 (300%) = 59.97 HP, won’t the game round up?”  No, it will not.  HC mode death cards, says 1 HP that is 0.6 HP (LESS than 1) 60 * 1% = .6 (HC mode is 60 HP broken down into %).

    last edit:
    Ok...not so much head way anymore...hit a road block.  Head shots do not always mean a kill.  In today's system if you're past X meters one head shot does not guarantee a kill and you have to get a 2nd hit for a kill.  So I could not just simply say that all 3448 of my head hits resulted in a kill!  Sure, a few can, but I know I fire at people beyond 45m.  So, I do not think it is even possible to remove head shots from the "equation" to attempt for look for a bot by pure body shot hit damage.

    The "Spring patch" changed how the head shot system works.  I could not in good conscience just divvy out 1:1 or even 1:4 (head hit : hits) because the old system a head shot was not a guaranteed kill at point blank range like it is now.  Being stats are an inclusion of old physics plus new physics the only stat that we can rely on is the over-all h:k because that at least did not change, old or new physics it is still (non head shots) max damage, three hits to kill (5.56 weapons) and max damage, two hits to kill (7.62 weapons).

    So the question posed still remains...how can we account for 93% of the time someone achieves max damage across all maps if head hits cannot help explain a boost in damage until just recently?

  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017


    "

    Ok, making headway, the next logical question.  What does it take to become a red flag to people when they see stats like 97% of the time, maximum damage is done on 100,000 kills with an LMG used at all ranges?

    This link shows exactly what I’m talking about with damage bleeding.

    http://symthic.com/bf4-weapon-info?w=MG4

    After the 47 mark damage goes from 33 h:k to 25 h:k and head shots go from one (100%) to two (50%).  I encourage anyone to do the math, you’ll say, “but 19.99 * 3 (300%) = 59.97 HP, won’t the game round up?”  No, it will not.  HC mode death cards, says 1 HP that is 0.6 HP (LESS than 1) 60 * 1% = .6 (HC mode is 60 HP broken down into %).

    last edit:
    Ok...not so much head way anymore...hit a road block.  Head shots do not always mean a kill.  In today's system if you're past X meters one head shot does not guarantee a kill and you have to get a 2nd hit for a kill.  So I could not just simply say that all 3448 of my head hits resulted in a kill!  Sure, a few can, but I know I fire at people beyond 45m.  So, I do not think it is even possible to remove head shots from the "equation" to attempt for look for a bot by pure body shot hit damage.

    The "Spring patch" changed how the head shot system works.  I could not in good conscience just divvy out 1:1 or even 1:4 (head hit : hits) because the old system a head shot was not a guaranteed kill at point blank range like it is now.  Being stats are an inclusion of old physics plus new physics the only stat that we can rely on is the over-all h:k because that at least did not change, old or new physics it is still (non head shots) max damage, three hits to kill (5.56 weapons) and max damage, two hits to kill (7.62 weapons).

    So the question posed still remains...how can we account for 93% of the time someone achieves max damage across all maps if head hits cannot help explain a boost in damage until just recently?

    h4iltotheking

    You need context for those numbers you're throwing out to make sense.  For example, we are restricted from banning players with high damage values on a limited sample size, but the more that sample size grows (say 300 kills), the stronger the correlation between the existing damage values and the probability of superseding the average damage values shared across multiple players.

    Furthermore, just because it takes less shots to elicit a kill via headshot, doesn't mean that the values will suddenly change and shift in a cataclysmic manner.  You would have seen a small shift, but not to the point of devaluing the overall pool of damage values across the board.  Remember that a lot of these values are still within the realm of normalized sets of results shared across multiple players -- a shift in how headshot kills are multiplied doesn't necessarily imply a sudden (and significant) increase in damage values.  You'd have to contextualize the damage values with both KPM, accuracy, and especially HSKR, which are more common indicators of a combined set of abnormal results.  To my recollection, the first headshot is considered a base value shot, while the second one is a finishing kill, regardless of the HP leftover.

    Moreover, DICE also reduced the ability to elicit one-kill shots from certain weapons, including the Magnum .44, which used to be able to reduce health pools from 100 to 0 with one shot to the head.  You can still do so, but you'd have to be in a very specific distance to manage it. 

    I think you're overthinking this particular issue (and in my opinion, it's a non-issue).

  • h4iltotheking
    Director
    Member since May 05, 2017

    I will clear this up since I did a lot of the code for stats and damage. I factored damage from the real weapon stats , not an average or anything else, plus a little for hardcore and head shot multipliers. We only factor weapons that have over 100 kills, and while the damage value is overall for that weapon it cannot exceed max damage plus multipliers. If someone has red highlighted damage for a weapon that means it is well over possible damage and would be infeasible to achieve without cheating or stat padding.

  • h4iltotheking
    User
    Member since May 05, 2017


    "

    " Moreover, DICE also reduced the ability to elicit one-kill shots from certain weapons, including the Magnum .44, which used to be able to reduce health pools from 100 to 0 with one shot to the head.  You can still do so, but you'd have to be in a very specific distance to manage it. 

    I think you're overthinking this particular issue (and in my opinion, it's a non-issue).

    hockeeyyy
    Edit: AHHHHH, I'm always writing books >.<

    I know for a fact in HC mode any weapon one shot kills within 15 meters since the spring patch.  In addition, after X meters (weapon type specific) bullet damage reaches a point it takes two head shots to kill.

    It is a non-issue because of how stats are "kept" unfortunately.

    @Skulls
    You have always been clear, thank you.  Maybe it was I who was not clear?  I was building my questions off of your comments such as, your "stuff" is listed based on max damage, that's all we can, in any kind of good conscience, accurately calculate.  So...

    I use the M249 at all ranges.  My "Dmg" is 29, exactly middle of 25 and 33.  Meaning for using a weapon on ALL Maps at ALL ranges, 50% of the time i'm in the middle of min / max damage, or, 50% of the time I'm shooting at targets more than 45m away, and 50% less than 45m away.

    In comparison, look at my AEK, it's 32 (still under 33).  I can tell you i ONLY use that POS bullet dispenser on CQB maps where long distance shots are extremely limited!  It's a beyond trash accuracy weapon, the bullet spray is huuugggeeee (Trump voice).  Trying to shoot anything beyond 45m not on single shot, LOL.  That's also how you can spot a cheat.  For example, the subject in question running a muzzle break, trigger mashes full auto the AEK and has no spray penalties, LOL blatant obvious.  But still back to my point, 32 of (25 : 33) shows I get 90% of my kills under 45m which is accurate.  I do not even bother on shots that "look" long distance, not worth wasting the ammo.

    How can 93% weapons damage be justified as "legit" on big maps when it's clear targets are over 45m away???

    Edit:  We come to the numbers of 25 and 33 based on HC mode and weapon type.  5.56 weapons take three hits to kill max damage, and four hits to kill min damage.  1:3 = 33.33%  1:4 = 25%

    Conversely 7.62 weapons are min damage, three hit kill and max damage two hit kill.  1:3 = 33.33% and 1:2 = 50%  (33.33 / 50)